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(transcribed by AI so there maybe some small errors!)

Hello, and welcome to The Wild Minds Podcast for people interested in health, nature-based therapy and learning. We explore cutting edge approaches that help us improve our relationship with ourselves, others and the natural world. My name is Marina Robb, I'm an author, entrepreneur, for a school outdoor learning and nature-based trainer and consultant, and pioneer in developing green programs for the health service in the UK.  

Welcome to Episode 46 growing up Core principles and needs, in this episode, I take a look at the four guiding principles that underpin the Early Years Foundation Stage in the UK, and consider how these principles could also underpin our own wellbeing. Sometimes it appears that nature-based experiences and learnings are alternative or radical, but these very same principles actually exist underneath our practice. We are all unique in the ways we learn and develop. We all need positive relationships to thrive and have time to follow our interests and needs, and when we develop practices that enliven these principles, then children can grow up to feel good enough and know that they are capable enough.

So, as we approach the end of October, we here in the northern hemisphere, are acutely aware of the lessening light, the darker, rainier days, and in older Celtic traditions, the year is ending and the new one is beginning. This is marked by many cultural rituals and traditions around the world, such as Day of the Dead in Mexico, and sometimes we call this time of year All Saints Day, All Hallows Day, All Souls Day, the festival of remembrance, samue, and it's a time when we remember the people we've lost and where we come from, our ancestry, the good and the not so good. And of course, nature reminds us, as well as the leaves fall and go back to the ground to become the compost for new life and new possibility. And in the UK, our only two hibernating land mammals, the Hazel door, mice and hedgehogs, are getting ready to sleep.

So, I also return to the theme of powerlessness, and in the context of loss and death, I'm reminded that we are not in control of what inevitably changes. The teacher of death as your advisor who helps us to be grateful for this moment and know that we share many, many experiences in common. You so I'm grateful today for this amazing sunshine that we've got on this kind of crisp autumn day. And I went for a walk to gather rose hips, because tomorrow I'm running a workshop where I'm going to be basically enjoying rose hips and making cordial. And I was thinking of a little syrup, which is basically a cordial. And I'm just so grateful to be walking in the sun and noticing in front of me this green plant, still green. We haven't lost all the leaves yet, and then these beautiful red dots of rose hips, and they're so medicinal as well, and it's just such a lovely thing. So yeah, I had a really nice hour doing that, so I'm really grateful to that. And actually, I'm going to try and make sure that I get out again, because, yeah, when you're living in a country that has a winter, getting out and getting some of that sun on your skin is really rejuvenating, I'd say so today, I want to just touch on in, you know, more thinking needs and the value of play.

And as I said from the end of the last episode, I just want to talk a little bit about this separation, this kind of culture of separation from the natural world. So just kind of tuning into that a little bit. So I want to just start with thinking about children and in this country, in the UK, thinking about the early years curriculum, and they talk about these four guiding principles, which is that every child is unique, and children learn and develop in different ways and at different rates. So that's true for every person, isn't it that we're learning and developing in different ways and I think it's really important that when we think about education, we think about being with children and running groups, that we are seeing them as unique and individual and having a whole bunch of unique needs. And I'll touch on new needs in a little bit. And one of the other guiding principles is positive relationships. Children progress when they have positive relationships. This is at the heart of the foundation of a curriculum. Sometimes I think we get lost in the subject materials and outcomes, and you know, then we lead it into GCSEs and the whole memory task of that, but we forget that children can't progress unless they have these positive relationships.

So what does that mean? Having positive relationships? Well, for sure, it's about treating people with respect and all those things that come up when we make assumptions about people and really learning to notice what's going on for us so that we can attend to that and not project that onto the other. And just all those opportunities to laugh and have fun and enjoy each other's company and enjoy that relationship. So many relationships are stressful, and in the school environment, we're kind of expecting so much from young people. So positive relationships are so important enabling environments is another principle, which is where children learn best when they can explore their own interests and needs. And I can't help but of course, link that to the forest school approach and to the nature-based approach. When we really try and create safe enough spaces where people feel that they can choose what they want to do. We can't emphasize enough how important this ability to choose and make decisions for yourself as to what you need in that moment, and having spaces to do that in a learning environment and exploring your own interests. And we talk about the importance of self-esteem and confidence and trusting that inner part of you that can do that.

And I talk about this a lot, but these are just different ways of looking at it and thinking going back on last week's podcast from Sam Williams and his approach as a head teacher to the early years to a nursery school. So, what are children interested in? And we often will. If you ask children, they want to play, they want to get outdoors, and they want to have lots of fun, relationships and learning has to be fun. If it's going to be really effective, it should be joyful. And when it isn't well, then we need to be alongside that. The other fourth one is children are competent learners. So children are capable, resilient and self-assured from birth. That's a huge thing. They are capable. We have this kind of hierarchy that somehow, they're not they're supposed to arrive at somewhere with certain knowledge. That's a very specific kind of knowledge, but they are capable, and we can find ways to support their learning. This sense of being resilient, being able to fall, trip over and fall and make mistakes and bounce back up. And they can do that if we're kind of alongside them, and you know, not maybe judging them and being negative about them, you know they respond to positive interactions. And you'll know that doesn't mean that I am not somebody that really wants to engage in the emotions that are more troubling and be alongside that. Because life is full of anxiety and anger, creating moments as well, and we need to be with that as well. I love that these are the four guiding principles. 

So, when we follow that, we can create curriculums that really respond to those four basic principles. And of course, in that we heard last week about the ethos of play and why play is just so important, I'm going to touch on that in in slightly different way today. And obviously a lot of what I do in this podcast is really raise the kind of importance of play, because I think we misunderstand it so much, and I can't, I always hear, you know, it's they're just playing when there's so much going on in that. And there are other podcasts that I speak to that in and I've had interviews with people about So for now, I just want to touch on a bit of needs. And needs. People say, you know, oh, you it's really important to meet children's needs or to meet your own needs. And sometimes like, well, what do they mean by that? But what are needs, and what do people mean by that, and actually, I could probably throw out 60 to 100 or more different kinds of needs that are very important. And I'm not going to necessarily put one above another today. I just want to name some of the needs.

And what we know is that humans, as humans, we need to feel that we belong. We need to feel attached to other humans, and that doesn't have to be a mum and a dad. It can be somebody that cares for us, and we know from research of children that have been either totally abandoned or left without human interaction, that their brains do not develop. And actually, whilst it's true that our brains are plastic, that they can keep growing over time in those early years, if we don't have those social interactions, then it's very, very hard to catch up in terms of, yeah, being able to meet milestones in child development. So, but the needs for secure attachment is so important to feel that we have this connection to some somebody else, somebody that can actually look at you with kind eyes to feel you know that you're safe with that adult is essential. So, needs for secure attachment are really also about meeting the child's emotional intensity, whether that's huge expressions of joy and laughter or anger or sadness, and to do that in a way that is attuning to them.

So we use this word like attuning with them, so that we can actually connect with their pain and joy. And that's not doing it for them. It's being alongside, and it's so powerful when you're working with groups, and you can actually kind of feel that anger of the other, and to just kind of be with it, it's very, very connecting for that person. And I suppose I see that as not being alone with those feelings, and in some ways, those feelings being normalized. And so, we need that. We need to have adults that can attune with us. And we also need, and that came up last week, this empathetic listening, really sort of validating how we feel how another person feels, even if it's really different to what we're experiencing ourselves. And when we're not trying to fix things and we're not trying to persuade children to get out of their feeling, it was really strong for me last week when Sam was talking about how so many young people are feeling anxious about the climate, and are feeling anxious that the adults are just not doing anything. And we know, you know, that there's been protests, and Greta Thunberg was out there galvanizing young people, and some schools were not letting them protest, but this is a way of young people having agency and actually saying we really care about this, and that kind of empathetic listening and allowing that to be real for them is so important, And that link to reduction in anxiety when you're actually heard and taken seriously. And then, of course, the power of the agency to do something about that. And I absolutely loved and, you know, I'm going to think about for a long time, the link between democracy and agency and empathy.

This kind of feeling and caring for something and actually having a voice and being able to say this really matters. And frankly, everybody out there, I am meeting people all the time that are, you know, overwhelmed, but also really, really kind of frustrated and angry and feeling powerless, that we all know that we need to be looking after the planet and not harming the planet, and that we know that when we harm the planet, we harm ourselves. So if that's not an incentive, then that I don't know what is but there's this kind of frustration that we have the tools to live in a way that doesn't harm the planet. We can. We've got years of research and ways to improve systems, food systems, education systems, health systems, the companies and their rates of pollution and all kinds of things but we don't have so much the political will I get, I'm going to assume it's the politics are our democracy, the voices of that are not being heard or taken seriously. So, there's something here for me about caring and being with people and getting that level of emotion, whether we agree with it or not, and that really helps, that's a need. We have a need for empathetic listening.

Another one is really about containment, being able to reflect rather than react, and often that means about holding clear structures, boundaries, what's okay, what's not okay, and creating a situation that feels safe enough. You know, there's something so true when there's no boundaries, it feels kind of like you're on a cliff edge that no one's going to hold you where are the stop signs? And that's very scary as well. That can create a lot of anxiety when someone says, doesn't say, Stop, even in adult relationships, you know, when someone's like, you know, I don't like what you're saying, that kind of and I'm, you know, that's got to stop is a relief when someone stops you, you know, because, again, this is also about power dynamics and being what we want to do is to build our inner power so that we aren't seeking to dominate, to have control and have power over people. And this is ongoing all the time, and again, I'm bringing that in. This is a season of addressing power and noticing where we have power over and where we feel powerless, and we all feel powerless, and it's a horrible feeling. It's painful, and it doesn't even have words. It's just a it's right, deep in the body of loss as well.

There's a kind of loss, and yes, I think painful, that's the way I would describe it. And then another one. And these are just like the iceberg. This is around needs, really important needs for attachment. The other one could be soothing, which you know, need to have soothing and calming spaces, which really support us to not dysregulate, to be spoken to in a soothing way. And we often talk about this when we talk about behavior is communication and how as adults, it's obviously not just the words we're using, it's the tone we're using, it's the way we're looking, it's the way we're standing, body language, which, again, is very animal. We are animals. You know, we all these cues, responses that we have are very animalistic, because ultimately, we're going back to those primal systems of fighting, fleeing, freezing, you know, and how that affects the body. So those are examples of some of the needs. And I'll talk a little bit more as well in a minute, but this probably is a good time for a break, so let's talk a little bit more just about needs, and then we can have a little look at some of the ideas around Play again and why play is so important. And I've said, I don't this is just play for children. I think this is how we give ourselves the opportunity to be playful and actually release some of those biochemicals, like oxytocin, that love chemical that is produced in our bodies, which is amazing, that actually helps.

To feel good and really counteracts the stress that we may be feeling. So it's so important to feel safe, to feel valued, accepted and loved, and finding those relationships in our life is necessary, and without that, it can feel extremely lonely, and it takes risks to do that, because, yeah, there are people out there that are not going to look after you. So I guess that's about also learning what relationships feel good enough and what they don't. And like, learning to move away from those that don't feel so good. You know, we need to meet our basic physical and material needs, and as I've said it, form intimate relationships and partnerships and feel valued within our families and social roles, and also to be able to manage a whole range of emotions that's really important as well. And then going back to that lovely word, the ability to actually, like, actually exercise our own agency and have control in our lives as well. So certain things we know we can't control, and certain things we can control. And I guess sometimes that might be literally like saying, Okay, I'm gonna take myself off for five minutes. And, you know, really look after myself and control saying no, control to say yes. Really important.

So let's talk a little bit about play and just how important giving children the opportunity to actually take a break, and how so much research just shows that when you give them play time, that their executive functioning will improve, their emotional self-control will improve, and that all these things, for example, are aspects of really successful learning, also being physical, we know that when we can be physical, that helps us regulate and also it can actually help us retain information and comprehend information. So we need to be physically moving. We need to be moving and taking more time so that eat, so that when we do feel anxiety, that will be reduced, because we're going to be actually resetting through having time to play and really allowing for those biochemicals that can really help us support our emotional wellbeing. So play is really important. It's important for brain growth. You know, when we play, there's so many opportunities to create neurologically rich experiences. You know, from dressing up to running around to climbing trees to throwing balls to, I don't know, whatever want to do, digging, playing with mud. And really important this idea, again, of directing what you want to do and feeling a sense of internal power that you can actually do this and choose to do it.

So it's actually really important that we're allowing for space and time in schools to play, and when we're working within for a school settings or nature based programs, what we want to do as well is actually make sure that we have time for free flows, or for what we could say is just space to choose exactly what they want to do, when they want to do, and the idea of having these regular opportunities And these regular relationships means that there is enough trust and confidence to choose what they want to do, and they know they're not going to get in trouble for doing that. So you might have one child or one adult deciding to hang out in a hammock, another one running around and playing lots of games, another person taking leaves and making art on the ground. Other people painting, for example, all kinds of different ways of being and exploring in the outdoors. And I'm always focusing on the doors. But of course, these are also true for the indoors as well.

So this idea, going back to those basic principles and really thinking about the child as a unique person, to really do that, to build those relationships, we need to have higher ratios of adults to young people so that we can be able to meet some of those needs. So we want children to grow up, to feel confident, to feel that they have value, to feel that they're good enough, and to find ways to live a meaningful and purposeful life that has meaning for them. And for me, you can't have that without having a environment. And in this case, for me, a natural world, a natural environment that is also healthy. And it's so important that if we really care about being healthy and children being healthy, then we also absolutely need to consider that without a healthy ecology, that's almost impossible to achieve. So at the end of the day, I end up always returning to this important paradigm shift, that we are part of nature, that we are animals, and that we have been grown up to believe that we are separate from and that we can basically take from nature and not give anything back and I think there's something so fundamental about life, even at an atomic level, that places us right back into deeply into all that is Life.

And I'm going to leave you with this acknowledgement that I've heard over many years, but it came up recently, just that we are also made of the stars, and that's a statement, but actually, the original atoms that were created from the explosion of the star. I don't exactly know what happened. I'm gonna have to go away and find out, but I do understand that those carbon molecules, those all those other molecules, that they are the molecules that we have in our own bodies. So we feel. I experience myself as separate, and my body is separate in many occasions, but actually we are open systems, and we are intimately influenced by light, for example, by sunlight and there's this intimate connection with life, and there's something here about understanding that with our brains, but also really being able to have a sense of that, you know, in our bodies. And as I went picking those rose hips, and, you know, had a bit of the juice or the center of the Rosa being careful not to have the seeds or the hairs, just a little warning out there. You know, I'm eating the plant that got his food from the sun and then obviously had nutrients from the ground as well. But I'm eating that. And so that becomes part of me. And there's something here about this backwards and forwards of this constant to and fro and relationship between the elements food and the larger biosphere, that really is important. And I'll leave you with thinking about that. And I yeah, I hope you get an opportunity to go out and have a few minutes for yourself and prioritize that, because this is the moment. 

Thank you for listening to this podcast and joining me for these bi weekly reflections. Next week, I'm talking to Nadia Sheik, who is a naturalist, conservationist and land justice activist working with right to roam. We discuss who owns the land, decolonizing this sector, the current state of nature and loss of biodiversity. Thanks for listening and see you next week.

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To stay updated with The Wild Minds Podcast and get all the behind-the-scenes content. You can visit the www.theoutdoorteacher.com or follow me on Facebook at theoutdoorteacherUK and LinkedIn, Marina Robb.
The music was written and performed by Geoff Robb. See you next week. Same time, same place.