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(transcribed by AI so there maybe some small errors!)

Hello, and welcome to The Wild Minds Podcast for people interested in health, nature-based therapy and learning. We explore cutting edge approaches that help us improve our relationship with ourselves, others and the natural world. My name is Marina Robb, I'm an author, entrepreneur, for a school outdoor learning and nature-based trainer and consultant, and pioneer in developing green programs for the health service in the UK.  

Welcome to Episode 38. Today, we delve into the transformative power of nature in education and health. I'll be sharing the backstory of circle of life with discovery, my community interest company, and our journey in offering nature based programs and green interventions with the National Health Service and various teams. Over the past 20 years, we'll explore how these initiatives have evolved into training programs that empower practitioners from all walks of life to incorporate outdoor practices into their work. I'm really excited to highlight our latest partnership with Natural England, which has funded 20 NHS practitioners and mental health public health, primary care and community health services to participate in our certificate in nature based practice program. This initiative includes research on the impact of the training, and the full report is now available for download and dissemination. Please get in touch if you're interested in learning more. Or if you have ideas on how we can extend this opportunity to more NHS practitioners. I'd like to give some gratitude today to all the plants and everything that they bring to us all the health and well being and all the nutrients and everything else but in particular, the nettle. Because I've been learning a little bit more about nettle, I've always harvested nettle within the groups that I work with. Because I know it's so high in protein and it's always exciting to pick and grasp the NFL and realize that actually, what we see as weeds are not really weeds, you know, they have huge nutritional value. And actually, when you learn how to pick them, it's very easy. And then you can make soup, you can make metal crisps, you can put them in tea, and all kinds of things.

But right now, at this time of year as we enter the summer and into the changing seasons, it's the seeds that are so amazing. And nettle seeds are known as wild adaptogens which really means that they really help us respond to stress, anxiety, fatigue, and there are so many of them so we can learn to harvest the seeds. And one thing that's worth thinking about is that often we see these kind of bunches of what looked like seeds or nettles this time of year, but actually, one is the male plant which is the flowers and the female plant. Another plant which is the flowers that tend to the seeds. So like with all plants, you've got the flowers that produce pollen, which then fertilize the seeds, but within the nettle family.
We have nettles that are male and nettles that are female so you We're going to pick the seeds, you just need to look and understand and learn a little bit more about which are the female seeds. And then you can dry them, you can put them into cereal, you can eat them straight off like little balls of seeds. And you know, there really helps your immune system, your blood pressure, they have Amiga oils, and I said proteins and so on. So amazing kind of plant that gets dismissed. So much is such a powerful and healthy plan.

So today, I wanted to talk about basically the work that I do, and my journey a little bit and my vision of nature and education, not like the whole massive vision of a country, around education and health, but my area within that. And there really is a growing theme in this season, about how we can apply our imagination and the power of vision, but the power of having a sense of what's important, and then how that is brought into the everyday world and to know what's actually possible. And I think part of that links to a sense of how power operates, whether we feel we have any power, whether we feel suppressed, oppressed, how we are oppressed, how society oppresses us how we oppress ourselves how we oppress others in different ways. Because, in a sense, this feeling that we can participate, and imagine different futures and have a vision of what might be possible, is connected to the sense that we actually are valuable, and that we do have a role to play and that our voice, and our contribution matters. And that seems to be a theme of this season as well. So it got me thinking about wanting to share a bit about how I've come to do what I've done. So most of my adult life and my youth, I asked what motivates people to care about the natural world, it's something that I was involved with when I was 18, or 19. And did environmental management? And is the question that has been with me the whole time in the sense that, how do we participate? How do we create systems that look after ourselves and the natural world at the same time? And it's kind of clear that there is this clear narrative that what can we do as individuals, but really, it's becoming obvious that we need to do more as a community more action together, and that system change is necessary because as individuals, whilst we need to do what we do, it's the bigger system that has a lot more power than the individual in that sense.

And, you know, this links to policy, and it also links to individual sense of well being that we believe that when we're not well, that it's often to do with just us, whereas actually, it's often to do this with a system that we're within. And so, focusing and kind of unpacking and interrogating those systems is important. So, how do we change education? How do we change the health system and how do we influence those systems and in a way we all have our different roles to play within that. So for a long, long time, I worked offering free programs through my other organizations Circle of Life, we discovery, which was created in 2004. And what happened was, I got an offer to go to Canada in 2004. And study what is called the rediscovery model, which is why the organization is called Circle of Life, rediscovery. And this organization as a vision holds that the it draws on the teachings of indigenous peoples and the wisdom of elders, with a philosophy of love and respect for each other in the earth. rediscovery seeks to empower youth of all ages to discover the world within themselves, the world between cultures and the natural world. So I got an opportunity to train within this model and then came back to the UK and started a Community Interest Company circle of life we discovery and it was from there that I was able to raise funds and start delivering nature based programs that were free to groups. And this, as I said, was about 2004.

So it's quite a long time ago. And quite early on, we started to partner with the National Health Service and particular teams within that. And one of the key teams was cams, which is the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. And so we would work in partnership, they would be working with groups of teenagers, we would be accessing land and renting land and running programs, whether it's weekly programs or programs over the month and bringing young people that had mental health difficulties out into the natural world. And this was in the late, probably 2010 2012. And it was the beginning of what mind the charity was calling eco therapy. And they were we got one of the first funding pots that supported those programs. And it was clear from my own life experience in working with loads of young people that it made a difference to be working within a model that listened to young people that listened to what interested them that created a safe space, a space that had a lot of space. And they could find spaces to go and relax and know that they were not threatened and slowly through participating in different activities, whether that was making fires or creative activities, or using their hands that they were able to talk and have a different experience of themselves and others. And so it's a powerful model of working outdoors. And there's lots more that you can look up about this in my website and other people that do similar programs. 

So that was where we started. And then from there, we got lots more funding through the lottery schemes and work with the traveling community. And then within the NHS looked after children, carers, and then started running programs with for younger people that had experience of early psychosis, and then working with the older communities that had dementia and many other groups that we would take out over a period and build this relationship and work in natural settings. And we won programs and projects, won the ITV people's Project Award, which again facilitated us to do a lot more work. And our champion program is working with cams, LD fears, which is the family intensive support service learning disability service, which we've now run for about 15 years and working with taking families with children that have moderate to severe learning disabilities out into the natural world. And we've been funded to do that. And it's been absolutely wonderful. And it's a participatory model. It's CO production. And this is why this way of working informs not just the work that I do with the health sector, but also the work that we do within the educational sector. And of course, within forest school that is very much about participation, and listening and CO creating the space together. So what became clear to me and continues to be clear to me as we continue to run these programs, that in a way, it's very expensive to always be trying to get funding takes a lot of time I get a lot of rejections. And wouldn't it be better if we could train the people to offer it within their service. So it made so much sense to me for many years now that if we plastically we give the tools and the skills to the people that are already working with groups, then they can choose what's appropriate and when to take their practice outdoors.

So as you will know, if you've listened to the podcast, within the education sector, I decided to learn and develop my practice within the forest school movement because it was clear to me that was being adopted by more schools. It was a model that was more acceptable in a way it fitted in to mainstream. And then within the health sector. It was like well, there's nothing there to actually train health practitioners or people working in community All services to actually take their practice outdoors. So something that I felt very passionate about. And when we think about vision for me, the vision is to enable basically all teachers, which really should be happening in teacher training. And in trainings where people are training to become whatever role they have within the health service, that they at least can select a module and have an experience of how they could take their practice outdoors. I mean, for me, it's always been a no brainer, particularly if you're working with young people, that you offer them a therapeutic space outdoors, because any one of you out there can imagine sitting in front of someone and talking directly with them, is quite threatening. It's hard enough as an adult to do that, but let alone as a child, whereas if you integrate movement, and using your hands and activities that connect, particularly nature, connection activities, then you're much more able to build that relationship. And we all know that it's the relationship that really matters when we're working therapeutically. So I began to think about within the health sector, what could be done, you know, how could we develop trainings that would support practitioners to take their practice outdoors. So about seven years ago, along with colleagues, we started developer training. And it made sense for me, for two reasons as well, because what I didn't mention is that, over this period, particularly working with the Health Service, and the education departments and services is that it's the teachers, it's the practitioners that are also incredibly stressed. So working outdoors also lowers their stress levels. So we developed a training, which is called the certificate in nature based training. And we've been running that for the past five years, and actually taking practitioners through a process where they can learn important health and safety, and learning about emergency planning, as well as offering them a range of skills and strategies and techniques to offer groups that they might work with.

And, for me, it's the problem, as we all know, is it again, it always often comes down to funding. So how do people working within these fields actually pay for this training. And of course, what often happens, as well as it's the pioneers, the people that want to learn and are interested that start to train first. But if we want system change, if we want to influence the way in which both nature is perceived and understood, and access to nature, and giving access to people, communities of people, whether that's through the education system or through the health system, then we have to train the practitioners. For me, it's a no brainer. So my vision is that educationalists and health practitioners have the option to train and learn how to take their practice outdoors, so that over a period of time, everybody has those skill sets. And that of course, we start to think about the land surrounding the schools, the land, within a near health, community, health centers, and so on, and how we can start to both rewild that land and look after that land, plays humans back into that land. So there really needs a wide survey of all the possible green spaces of which actually, there really is when you actually do the research, you start to see there's an enormous amount of green spaces that could be accessed by a range of people. And that's what we need a greater access to land. And as you've been listening over this podcast that humans do have a very positive role when they know how to contribute to the natural world. And there are so many years and years of practice of good conservation and human practice.

That's not meaning conservation. That is just for the wild species. It's also how humans can contribute and increase biodiversity and you've heard again, how humans when they know what they're doing, they can really increase biodiversity which is so important that all these things link to it. The wider issues of climate crisis and mental health crisis, because we know that being more at home, in our bodies at home, in spaces, connecting with others, is very good for our mental health and at the same time, allows us to positively contribute to the spaces that we live in. So this certificate and niche based training is something that's emerging, it's developing. And we were very, very fortunate in summer of 2023, where I got to walk with a couple of employees from Natural England in the woodland, which I've spoken about, and really talk about this vision about educating as many health practitioners possible to take their practice outdoors, and they had access to some funding. And eventually, we got given as an organization funding to, to give 20 NHS practitioners from all different departments to go through this training, free of charge, which we did. And at the same time, we were able to employ a researcher to actually follow the cohort through their experience and actually look at the impact of nature based training on practitioners in mental health, and public primary and community health services.

So the good news, and I wanted to share that with you today is that the report came out last week, the research report is completed that really explored the barriers and opportunities within the NHS service to train NHS practitioners. And particularly, what are the issues that are coming up when they are trained and how they can actually use and apply this model within their work already, service that they offer with all the services that they offer. So it's exciting and those 20 practitioners are now rolling out programs for their service users. And some, of course, have found it harder than others. And we're really in the early days. So this training costs 1000 pounds per practitioner, which when you actually think about how much it costs to run programs, where voluntary sector comes in and experience voluntary sector will come in and partner with a department. It costs a lot more than that. And whilst I think it's really valuable to have partnership projects, and to hold roles and understand the benefits of having those different roles, I also think we're absolutely at a time where so many people within education within health would benefit from developing their practice and knowing how to safely take their practice outdoors. So if you're within education, understanding the benefits of being in the body, being outdoors, implementing choice and consent and participatory approaches, following your interest, seeing that you actually do have value having adults and people around you that actually value you and what you've got to say and your interests. And from here, we can actually see that when you train one practitioner, you have a multiplying effect within the departments that they actually work within.

Because of course, it's the kind of like a no brainer that one person trained can actually work with hundreds of people. Whereas if we run one program, we can only really work with 10 to 15 people at a time. So it's a really important investment in this whole area of work. And of course, it really does matter what the values are of this program and the programs that we're running and that these values for me need to sit within a nature centric model that places humans within the natural world that we are a part of the natural world, and understanding that relationship and understanding the benefits that we receive from the natural world as the same way as how we can benefit the natural world. So that reciprocal relationship is really important. So folks out there if you want to download the report, then please go to our website. We'll put a link and you can download the report. Obviously for free and share it as widely as possible. And if you want to actually support funding in NHS practitioner, please get in touch. We're running the next program in October, we usually run them twice a year. And we're also hopefully partnering with other organizations over the next few years to be able to roll out more of these programs so that we have a whole national program on offering trainings for national health practitioners if they want to take their practice outdoors. So please get involved. As I said, this is impossible to do on our own as individuals and it's really about a community coming together and saying, let's do this. So thank you for your support and look forward to catching you again, very soon. 

Thank you for joining me on Episode 38, where we explored the transformative power of nature in education and health. I hope you enjoyed learning about the backstory of Circle of Life rediscovery, and our 20 year journey in offering niche based programs, and green interventions with the NHS and various teams. If you're interested in learning more, downloading the latest research report, or have ideas on how we can extend this opportunity to more NHS practitioners, please get in touch. Next week, I'm really honored to be speaking to an extraordinary woman Rebecca wild bear, who has spent decades guiding people into their own gifts, as well as offering unique practices that deepen our connection to nature. She also fiercely supports radical social and cultural change. You won't want to miss it. See you next week.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Wild Minds Podcast. If you enjoyed it and want to help support this podcast, please subscribe, share and leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your review will help others find the show.

To stay updated with The Wild Minds Podcast and get all the behind-the-scenes content. You can visit the www.theoutdoorteacher.com or follow me on Facebook at theoutdoorteacherUK and LinkedIn, Marina Robb.
The music was written and performed by Geoff Robb. See you next week. Same time, same place.